THE ULTIMATE SECRET and the Australian experience


Exploring “the Ultimate Secret” requires a lot of critical thinking, a deep appreciation of the complex and convoluted history of related claims, and a capacity to do the deep dive to thoroughly investigate such claims.  That’s why I am pleased to see investigative journalists of the quality of Australia’s own Ross Coulthart (author of “In Plain Sight: An investigation into UFOs and impossible science”), Ralph Blumenthal & Leslie Kean (authors of the breakthrough December 2017 New York Times story on a secret Pentagon UFO program and US Naval encounters – the extraordinary 2004 Nimitz encounter) and Michael Shellenberger (author of a June 8, 2023 story: “US has 12 or more alien spacecraft, says military and Intelligence contactors”) pursuing this story.

We have been this way before as part of the long, convoluted and contentious history of this intriguing saga. Here-in are some of my own flirtations with this thorny story.

Picture this – a 1988 Australian Penthouse article – “UFOs: The Ultimate Secret?” That was back in the days where you could almost justify the pretence of reading “Australian Penthouse” for the articles rather than the pictures …. (yes, really …) Read the first few paragraphs.  Deja-vu, for sure, considering all the attention and controversy about UFO/UAP whistle blower David Grusch.

Back in 1988 in the heyday of the MJ12 controversy I sat down with Tony Jones (then of ABC TV “Four Corners”, later “Lateline” and “Q&A”) and Greg Hunter (then senior editor of Australian Penthouse, and later biographer of Ian Thorpe) at my place. Both were interested in trying to nail down the saga of the great UFO secrets! Tony never got Four Corners to do a UFO show, and Greg stunned by the convoluted complexity of the story asked me instead to write the article. 

I took up the challenge interviewing Bill Moore, Linda Moulton Howe and Robert Emenegger along the way. The result was the article “UFOs – the Ultimate Secret” – in the December 1988 issue that attracted an editorial compliment – an “impressive investigation” – and even generated clandestine responses of its own – you know, the stuff of “cloak & dagger” rendezvous in various places to be told “secret” tales.

I concluded my article then with the following:
“Ultimately, there is no absolute proof of any of this. It is impossible to say with any certainty just what is going on. We could be dealing with:
* real extra-terrestrial contact – a cosmic watergate – in which Churchill’s wartime maxim of counterintelligence may rule, namely: “Truth is so important it must be guarded by a bodyguard of lies”,
* one of the biggest hoaxes in history;
* a Space Age technological expression of the urban legend syndrome …
* some sort of extraordinary clandestine intelligence gambit – an excercise in disinformation and deception.
It is possible we could be seeing a combination of these possibilities. Or maybe the answer lies in some other direction. As they say in the news flashes, we await further developments.”

Well, there have been plenty of new developments, now even far more convoluted and complex.  Decades down the track,the game is clearly still afoot (apologies to Sherlock Holmes), with offerings like the Woods Majestic documents controversy, “Case MJ-12” and “Project Moondust”from Kevin Randle,  “Project Beta – the story of Paul Bennewitz, National Security, and the creation of a Modern UFO Myth” by Greg Bishop, Robert Collins & Richard Doty’s colourful offering “Exempt from Disclosure: The Disturbing case about the UFO Coverup”, Nick Redfern’s “Body Snatchers in the Desert – the horrible truth at the heart of the Roswell saga”, Steven Greer with material like his 2017 book “Unacknowledged – an expose of the world’s greatest secret”, and with many, many other iterations. 

We even have Chris Aubeck in his book “Alien Artifacts – From Antiquity to 1880 – The forgotten story of how we came to believe in visitors from the stars” highlighting Louis Guillaume de La Follie novel “The unpretentious philosopher” from 1775 describing a “UFO” from Mercury crashing into a mountain.  But the Mercurian is a fake alien – “a Saudi traveller in disguise”, writes Chris (although more accurately Arabic traveller, the original text states).  Further still an obscure Spanish book, written in 1880 by Segismundo Bermejo y Merelo, Spain’s Minister for the Navy, reveals a 1868 tale with all the modern tropes of the 1947 Roswell saga – crash landing of a ET vehicle, made of “strange, ultralight material, 2 alien corpses & alien writing – all in an obscure novel, long forgotten.  Back to the present though.  


Along came Luis Elizondo, and now David Grusch, with many other players and dynamics along the way. Leslie Kean and Ralph Blumenthal in their 5 June 2023 article for the Debrief renewed the public focus on these claims.  Ross Coulthart introduced us to Nat Kobitz, former director of the US Navy’s Science and Technology Development, who before he died, provide him with leads to “The Program”, that also led him to David Grusch, the subject of his 11 June 2023 NewsNation interview “We are not alone – the UFO whistleblower speaks”.


A long convoluted history is revealed, made even more complicated, and remarkably, perhaps even more compelling in its latest iterations, given the apparent qualities and credentials of David Grusch, and the confirmational pathways he has taken to see this huge story of “the Ultimate Secret” get the rigorous scrutiny and debate it deserves.  


Let’s hope we get the liberation of real solid evidence for the extraordinary story of “the Ultimate secret.”  Given my background in science, quality assurance and advocacy of open multi-disciplinary scientifically orientated enquiry I have also tried to apply these things to this strange, frustrating, but frequently fascinating and challenging aspect of the UFO UAP problem.  Here are some of those enquiries.


Here I have included some of the Australian UFO/UAP “crash retrieval” stories I’ve encountered in many decades of investigation and research.  In an article I compiled back in the mid 1990s, and initially published in The Australian magazine “Ufologist” (Vol.1 No.3 Jul/Sept 1997), as “UFO crash/retrieval stories – the Australian experience,” I included a preliminary listing of such stories, as follows:


“Stories of UFO crashes form a persistent part of the UFO controversy. Whether they contribute ultimately to UFO folklore or fact will be a matter for history. With the prominence given to the Roswell saga I have put this report together to encourage feedback on this colourful area. Such stories deserve careful attention, if only to put them to rest. If only one turns out to be substantial, then we have a very extraordinary situation. However, I should caution none of them constitute proof of anything. 

“Listing of Australian Crash/Retrieval Stories

1. 1955 Eucla, SA (dubious alien photo and alleged crash debris).

2. 1955 near Nowra, NSW (Noel Martin’s 1982 “UFO Recovery” saga).

3. 1959 Butterworth RAAF Malaysia (letter writer to RAAF refers to plane destruction and debris from destroyed UFO).

4. 1966 Balwyn/Westall, Victoria (classic CE2 incident with possible UFO “in difficulty” rumours).

5. 1966-80 – Greenbank, Queensland (“Alien Honeycomb” saga).

6. 1972 Croydon, NW Qld, “crash” (meteorite? plus odd newspaper classified ad: “Magnificent obsession fruition. Tiger special duties all under objects. Will report as arranged.  Loyal and true.  Sky Blue World President. UFO. Immediate.)” 

7. 1972-73 – Edmonton area, North Qld (“cat woman” affair – “Girlie’s home”).

8. 1976 – Nowra/Robertson “, NSW, crash” (spurious).

9. 1979 – Banka Banka, Northern Territory, ex RAAF files re “crash”, burnt area & ash only found.

10. 1980 – Lismore, NSW “UFO crash” (dubious, possible newspaper fabrication).

11. 1983 – Coen, Qld – probable. meteorite (letter to editor alleging retrieval operation involved) 

12. 1970s – Mt. Isa artefact found by farmer – usual alloy mixture, studied by Qld metallurgist, Paul Brixius.

13. before 1985 – story re 12 to 14 “craft” held at a secure hangar style facility. Most unusual in appearance (“Star Wars” like appearance).  Only some had been open.  Various personnel seconded to work on these craft.  They were reportedly very frightened about working on the objects.  Occupants recovered, apparently numerous types, but source best familiar with 2 human looking males (internal organs allegedly different).

14. Source allegedly saw cover page and introductory page to document describing Australian operation called either operation or project A – which referred to “modules” and “aliens” being ready for transfer to an Australian facility, allegedly the same as in item 13.

15. TV media group allegedly at same site as per item 13 allegedly “wandered” into hangar area and saw “saucer” object.  They were caught and allegedly sworn to secrecy.

16. 1972/73, near Nowra, alleged “retrieval” attempt just out to sea during same night as extraordinary CE event.

17. Alleged accounts of possibly 3 UFO crashes in Australia including one in which one alien was still alive.

18. Information about an operation devoted to retrievals and an alleged “inner cell” intent on “contact” using individuals with history of UFO encounters. (Note Stan Deyo’s anecdote re “some decoded US Defence Department traffic…from nuclear test monitoring network headquartered in Washington and code named the “Shake Lady” … In the middle of this traffic was a response to a UFO enquiry made by a mobile unit in Western Australia.  The response was a reprimand for making such requests without the required “Level 7″ security clearance over such a relatively open communications link…”)

19. Abductee “recollects” on board episode which allegedly involved craft crashing in Tolga swamp in Qld.

20. 1979, Esperance, WA “crash” event (with DSTI/JIO SECRET “BOLIDE FILE” reference to “special access” channels undertaking a prompt and wide search).

21. Several Pine Gap anecdote of UFOs such as hunting party observing a craft flying out of a concealed door, an abductee who alleges he went inside an underground site there witnessing craft, examinations and “alien liaison” activity, and a UFO researcher who claims he “astral travelled” to Pine Gap secret facility.”


I won’t include here a case by case catalogue, but instead will refer to a few, which will highlight the difficulties of investigating these sorts of stories.


The “Alien Honeycomb” affair – “Not so alien honeycomb”

The book Alien Honeycomb and my own selection of “alien honeycomb” “implanted” on the cover

The “alien honeycomb” story was one of my earlier collisions with Australian “crashed UFO” tales.  But, this was one that would ultimately illuminate a cautionary tale for our current hunt for mysterious alloys, meta-materials and UFO “ejecta.” Given the current controversies and intrigues about mysterious “alloys”, “meta-materials” and such, in the custody of the likes of the Pentagon, Robert Bigelow and others, and “the Artifact” – a centrepiece in Diana Pasulka’s book from Oxford University Press “American Cosmic – UFOs, Religion, Technology”, being examined by people like Garry Nolan, Jacques Vallee and Hal Puthoff & Luis Elizondo of TTSA, and others, it is worthwhile to retell this cautionary tale. In the absence of detailed analytical data, prosaic possibilities need to be carefully considered before “alien” associations are obsessed with.  Should the results merit extraordinary claims, lets see the detailed data, contexts and analyses? What follows is what happens if caution is not followed along with attempts at verification and peer review.


John Pinkney (1934 – 2018), journalist, writer (including the vampire novel “Thirst” which was the basis of the 1979 film of the same name), puzzle-maker and co-founder of the Victorian Flying Saucer Research Society with Peter Norris & Kevin Arnett back in 1957, had a long career in journalism. His October 1978 headline media story on the Valentich story drew a lot of attention. He started writing paranormal and unexplained mystery columns that appeared in magazines like Pix-People. Through those he would get a lot of stories from readers and these would provide content for his many later books (such as “Haunted” (2011), “Great Australian Mysteries” (2003), “A Paranormal File: An Australian Investigator’s casebook” (2000) and “Alien Airships over old America: Plus 18 other tantalizing mysteries” (2011)). But it was his first UFO book in 1980 “Alien Honeycomb – the first solid evidence of UFOs” that really caught my attention.


As an industrial chemist it quickly became evident to me that a prosaic answer seemed likely for the “Alien Honeycomb.”  Pinkney and I undertook a debate on the topic within the pages of the magazine he then wrote a column for (Pix-People) – “the Great UFO Debate” – the editor’s title to our exchanges over 2 issues, although I had concluded that the material had nothing to do with UFOs – a position that put John and I in conflict at the time. 


If only John had considered a fascinating and sobering anecdote in R.V. Jones remarkable book “Most Secret War”. During the Swedish “ghost rocket” flap of 1945-46, as then Director of British Scientific Intelligence, Jones stated, “since there had been allegedly hundreds of (ghost-rocket) sorties, there ought to be at least several crashed bombs already in Sweden, and yet nobody had ever picked up a fragment.  I therefore said that I would not accept the theory that the apparitions were flying bombs from Russia until someone brought a piece into my office ….”  It turned out that the Swedes had several pieces of a “bomb.” “When I asked whether it had actually crashed, the answer was that it had not, but that various pieces had fallen off it,” Jones wrote.


These fragments were forwarded to British Intelligence.  Among them was “a lump 2 to 3 inches across that was hard, shiny, grey and porous.” Although Jones knew what it was, he sent it to the Chemical Analysis Section at Farnborough.  Many people in intelligence believed in the reality of the Russian flying bombs, and jumped upon the resultant analyses of one of the fragments: “… one of the lumps consist of more than 98 percent of an unknown element!”


Jones got in contact with the head of chemistry at Farnborough, who confirmed the startling result.  “I then asked him whether he had taken a good look at the lump, and whether it had not struck him as being remarkably like an ordinary piece of coke.  There was a gasp from the other end of the telephone as the penny dropped.  No one had stopped to look at the material, in an effort to get the analysis made quickly, and they failed to test for carbon. The other lumps had similarly innocent explanations.”


“Alien Honeycomb – the first solid evidence for UFOs” by John Pinkney and Leonard Ryzman was published during 1980.  It professed to tell the story of a UFO explosion near Greenbank, Queensland, which led the authors to recovering some of the debris.  They claimed it contained “unknown elements and configurations”.  The book revealed no details about chemical analyses and the authors resisted any attempt at confirmatory, independent analysis.  They were only prepared to have their material examined by the United Nations.   The story that allegedly connects the debris to a UFO is fragmentary and dubious.  In fact, not enough information was given to verify a clear correlation.  Subsequent investigation indicated the original discovery of the material by locals was covered by the Brisbane Telegraph on November 13th, 1970.  The authors tried to link the debris with a sighting of a “flare” like “UFO” back in about 1966.


Pinkney and Ryzman indicated that most of the material was retrieved by RAAF officers, and then clandestinely dispatched to Pentagon testing laboratories.  They presented absolutely no evidence to back that statement up. The only reference to “Alien Honeycomb” I found in the RAAF files were internal memoranda from 1980. DEFAIR CANBERRA wrote to HQOC – SOINT on August 1st, 1980, regarding “Confirmation of Data in Book ‘Alien Honeycomb'”:

“The text of the book is sufficiently vague to make tracing information from service records a very tiring and difficult task.  A check of files held at Air Force Office has proven negative.

“Unfortunately, a ‘no comment’ or ‘no information’ response from the RAAF is only going to encourage this type of journalism. Accordingly, it is requested that HQOC initiate a check of records (including those of HQ AMB (Amberley – B.C.) for data which could relate to this matter”. 

A telex dated September 5, 1980, and categorised as “unclassified/routine”, from HQOC to DEFAIR Canberra, stated:

“Further to ref A the following is retrans of info received from HQ AMB. Quote:

“1.  Summaries of unidentified aerial sightings prepared by Dept of Air between mid 1968 and mid 1969 have been checked for mention of the case.  No mention of that particular sighting appears in the summaries.

“2. This is unusual because it is our understanding that the summaries were comprehensive and not edited lists of reported sightings.

“3. Unless requested by command the HQ does not propose to take this matter further”.


I didn’t see any evidence of a dark, pervasive cover up there.   Other RAAF files refer to retrieval of mundane debris, but none refer to the Greenbank “alien honeycomb”.  More likely the key to this affair is languishing, not in a UFO or UAS file, but in aircraft accident files. Greenbank is not far from Amberley RAAF Base).


As an industrial chemist and someone who was promoting serious research into possible physical evidence for UFOs, I was interested in finding out more when the book first appeared. The authors did not assist independent research into their material.  Based on visual assessments, I had felt it was most likely of man-made manufacture, but I couldn’t quite place it.  So I contacted a fellow industrial chemist from Ciba Geigy, who helped me out.  From information and discussion, I concluded the material was probably AEROWEB high strength honeycomb, some of which is made from fiberglass – a clearly human-sourced material.  Soon other researchers, such as Paul Hebron, of UFO Research (Queensland) (to who I owe the heading “Not so alien honeycomb”), had acquired samples of the material from the site in question.  A researcher working for sceptic Dick Smith received some of the “alien honeycomb” from the same person who provided the “Alien Honeycomb” authors with their material.  A clear relationship was established between this material and the material held by Pinkney and Ryzman.  Dick Smith financed an analysis through Unisearch laboratories, and not surprisingly confirmed that the “alien honeycomb” was not so alien – it was fiberglass!  So much for “the first solid evidence of UFOs.”  More compelling examples of unusual debris or material related to UFO events have been documented.  However, in this case it was clear that the material had nothing to do with UFOs.  




We met at a location in Parramatta on August 1st, 1990. The topic of confidential discussion was a strange tale about extraordinary activity at an Australian military research facility. I had requested a face to face meeting with my informant – a journalist. She was telling me a startling story told to her by a senior RAAF mechanic. 


According to the tale, sometime prior to 1985, the mechanic had been seconded, along with various other personnel, to work on between 12 to 14 strange “craft”, held at a secure hangar facility. Most of the “craft” were very unusual in appearance like “Star Wars” type craft, with strange projections underneath. Only one was round in appearance, and was apparently 12 feet in diameter. Some of the objects had been opened. Some seem very complex, others were very simple looking, with what appeared to be hydraulics, seemingly totally inconsistent, with their apparent purpose space travel. 


The seconded personnel were apparently very frightened of this work. They did not know what they might encounter. Creatures had been recovered from some of these craft. They were reportedly several types, but the mechanic was best informed on 2 “males”, who were identical to human beings externally, but had completely different internal organs, save for smaller lungs. The entities were deceased. 


The mechanic took his partner, my informant, out to the boundary fence of the complex and pointed out the hangar facility where he had been forced to work. He was convinced that the “craft” were not from this world. My informant, a journalist, accepts the story her former partner told her. She herself saw a UFO in the Salisbury area and seemed convinced of some sort of connection with the strange claims of the RAAF man. I asked the woman to put me in contact with him, but to date no confirmation from him or anyone else for that matter has occurred. Other stories however continue to emerge. 


The facility in question was the Weapons Research Establishment (WRE) at Salisbury, a RAAF/Defence Science and Technology Organisation (DSTO) operation, where AUSTEO (Australian Eyes Only) security prevails. The Defence Research Centre at Salisbury (DRCS), north of Adelaide, is Australia’s largest research and development complex, with 3 key defence labs (Advanced Engineering, Electronics research and weapons systems research), employing more than 2700 scientists, engineers, technicians and back up personnel. 

These labs are also connected with smaller facilities elsewhere, such as the Aeronautical Research Laboratory (ARL), Melbourne. DRCS has the advantage of RAAF Edinburgh Air Force Base next door, with its important research and aircraft testing facilities. One of the most interesting developments to come out of DRCS was Project Winnin or the Hoveroc, an anti ship missile decoy. It is a hovering cigar shaped solid fuel rocket that can be launched and then hovers and provides controlled sideways movement an extraordinary achievement. 


Because I had been accessing, researching and documenting Australian government and military investigations, with direct access between 1982 and 1984, I was coming into contact with many high level players.  This allowed me to bounce some of growing body of UFO crash tales with very credible individuals.  For example, George Barlow, deputy chief scientist at DSTO, told me this story had no credibility for him. DSTO had their own mechanics and wouldn’t need RAAF mechanics.




The late Quentin Fogarty (a primary witness in the famous Kaikoura New Zealand sightings and author of “Let’s hope they’re friendly! The remarkable story behind the world’s first verified film encounter with an unidentified flying object” (1982)) shared with me an intriguing “UFO crash retrieval” type tale (or a tale of a saucer shaped experimental vehicle), he had heard from a journalist friend, who was one of the alleged participants. Quentin told me that sometime during the seventies the TV crew camera man known to him had allegedly been at Salisbury, in South Australia, as part of a media contingent, apparently involved in a corporate film, or some such similar project, for the RAAF. During their presence at the facility they wandered off without a military escort. They came upon a hangar which housed a saucer type of craft. Their examination of it was cut short with the arrival of military security who hurried them away very quickly and pressured them to not disclose what they had seen. Such stories are of an apocryphal nature and do not invite a lot of confidence. In isolation they are just provocative stories. When such stories start to pop up on a regular basis, it is reasonable to ask what is going on. Are these tales legitimate or are they the stuff of “urban legends”? 


APOTHEOSIS – fact or fiction? 


Australian businessman James Kibel (the 1966 Balwyn UFO polaroid photographer), who travelled extensively overseas, told me that he had been shown the title page and introduction of a document purporting to describe an Australian operation called either Operation or Project APOTHEOSIS. Apotheosis means either exaltation to the rank of a god, the glorification of any person or a deified or glorified ideal, perhaps a fitting title? The document allegedly referred to “modules” and “aliens” being ready for transfer from an Australian facility. 

James Kibel (photo by Bill Chalker)

Kibel indicated to me he believed the facility in question was Salisbury. He claims to have sighted the document in Britain, via a Ministry of Defence contact. The “briefing report” was allegedly dated around 1986 or 1987, and was apparently from an Air Vice Marshall Mackay to a General Richards, at least that’s what he recollects. I have discussed this material with a number of people who might be privy to this sort of information. No one was able to confirm these details. James Kibel even suggested that it might prove hazardous to pursue the APOTHEOSIS connection. Such concerns have not materialized. The only connection to UFOs I have found to date with the word Apotheosis comes from a less than convincing source. The second volume of bizarre collections of wild UFO conspiracy fodder appearing under the title The Matrix II: The Abduction & Manipulation of Humans using advanced technology” thanks “Nexus Seven” for selections from his 1989 unpublished manuscript Top Secret/Apotheosis – A Multilateral Set of Hypotheses. Was this unlikely connection the inspiration of the Apotheosis story? 


Such tales, while curious are proof of nothing. They however give substance, albeit of a dubious kind, to the widely held belief that secret UFO activity and research has been carried out for years at remote sites and restricted areas in various locations including South Australia (Salisbury, Woomera, and the Nullarbor), Northern Territory (Pine Gap), and New South Wales (near the St. George Basin on the south coast). 




Pine Gap (code named ‘Merino’) located near Alice Springs and described as a “Joint Defence Space Research Facility”, has long been a subject of concern and attracted some mystique, principally because of its clandestine role in intelligence gathering. Much is known about its sensitive role as a ground station for the US defence satellite programme and its part in the NSA and CIA presence in Australia. With this sort of shadowy activity, it should not be surprising that Pine Gap has become a focus of a number of apocryphal UFO related stories. 


The now defunct Nation Review reported on Pine Gap’s role in “sci-fi research” in its “Spying Around” column, in 1974. William H. Martin stated: 

“The Pine Gap research facility near Alice Springs has managed to keep secret, until now, one of the most unbelievable research projects in the world. The United States has been carrying out continuous research into electromagnetic propulsion (EMP for short) at Pine Gap since it was established in 1966 … 

“I understand that last minute flaws in the design and operation of the EMP vehicles have probably put the completion date back by four years (to 1979). Research into electromagnetic propulsion began in the United States soon after world war two. After some successful results it became necessary to move the experimentation from populated areas to more remote spots…. 

“Security aspects of the EMP project have included hypnotic and post hypnotic keys implanted in personnel prior to their acceptance into the project ….“


Given William H. Martin was apparently a pseudonym for a writer on intelligence matters and the name of a major NSA defector, perhaps the pseudonym was an inside joke. Nothing further appeared on that curious account, except for Stan Deyo’s airing of the same story in his book The Cosmic Conspiracy” in 1978. He was a proponent of top secret “flying saucer” research or what he referred to as “electro gravitic propulsion systems”. 


Retired NASA scientist and UFO researcher Dr. Richard Haines alludes to an undated newspaper story, describing how a Perth newspaper received two visitors claiming to be Pine Gap employees. They allegedly spoke of “electromagnetic devices which manifested themselves as UFOs and even alien beings at Pine Gap.” Professor John Frodsham of Western Australia was told of the experience of 3 roo shooters, who alleged that at about 4.30 am, one morning, from a ridge overlooking Pine Gap, they witnessed a camouflaged door open up within the facility. A circular metallic looking craft rose vertically and silently and then took off at high speed. 


The Nullarbor UFO crash saga

The Nullarbor Eyre Highway location details

For the first time I will give a detailed account of the complex and convoluted saga that may described 2 separate accounts of possibly the same “UFO crash” event on the Nullarbor during the 1970s.  There will be repetitions, as I am attempting to describe this situation in the manner it came to notice, and then how various threads appeared to start to overlap and suggest the possibility of one event, from two different sources and perspectives.  The affair is still far from resolved, and should be considered as a case study of how complex and difficult such investigations can be.


This account focuses on a reported “UFO crash” event that apparently took place on the Nullarbor, near the South Australian border with Western Australia, in about 1977/78, and possible related matters. Intriguingly, this event may have been described by 2 separate parties – initially around 1995 by a person who alleged they were witness to the crash of the object, that they approached the crash site, with another person, and reportedly saw “aliens” in the damaged object. This encounter was interrupted by the apparent arrival of a covert “retrieval team.” The 2 men were, allegedly, separately taken into custody. From 2013, a confidential source, who indicated he was a high level player in the Oceanic arm of a privatised programme conducting UFO/space retrievals and research, and who I had also been in intermittent communication with since 2007, started describing having participated with what may have been the same “UFO Crash” event, as a prominent participant in the “retrieval” operation.  


The story will initially be described in the manner it was originally documented, then a more detailed accounting will be described.


Back in 1995-96 a source told me he knew of at least 3 separate UFO crashes in Australia. They were allegedly the focus of an operation devoted to retrievals of the objects and any beings present. Australian and US military teams, intent on “contact” apparently used individuals with histories of UFO encounters to help identify possible event locations. My source claims these individuals apparently come from military ranks. One alleged incident was described in great detail. 


My source describes the following extraordinary incident, in which he claims to have been a direct participant. I have not been able to verify this story due to concerns that any attempt to check his bona fides may draw unwanted attention to him, a frustrating or convenient Catch 22, depending on your point of view. While the details seem unbelievable, I have heard various elements of the story as features in other unrelated episodes. This does not validate the story but it makes it at least a fascinating yarn that may yet yield confirmatory details. 


According to the informant’s story, in about 1977 a UFO, first seen as a purple green “fireball”, was observed to “crash” near the South Australian, Western Australia border, some distance north of the Eyre Highway. A retrieval team was on location within hours and confirmed the presence of a large damaged object, completely unlike any conventional aircraft. Smaller than a Boeing, it had something of a triangular appearance. There was charcoal coloured debris present. 


The team quickly verified that two men had already entered the crashed UFO. One of them, indicating he was with the transport division of the Australian army, had emerged from the craft in a somewhat dazed condition. He stated that one of the UFO occupants was still alive. He was subjected to immediate decontamination procedures. The man’s companion was apparently determined to be a US citizen. He was separated from the Australian and taken into custody. 


Allegedly he was determined to be AWOL and was taken back to the US. The Australian army transport driver was subjected to standard interrogation procedures. He was returned to his vehicle and escorted to his destination and then relocated to Exmouth for two weeks of intensive interrogation and debriefing designed to ensure he was not a security threat to the operation. 


The retrieval group verified the presence of two beings inside the craft. One was deceased. The other indicated signs of life, uttering a slight squealing noise possibly indicative of being in pain. Both appeared to be pot bellied, with arms that seemed thinner and longer than normal. They were both about 4’6″ to 5′ in height. Their eyes appeared to be wider than normal and looked black. No ears or hair was noticed. My informant did not participate in the actual removal of the beings and craft but allegedly verified that the site was totally cleaned up leaving no evidence of any crash incident.


The retrieval operation was allegedly part of a joint US-Australian operation to recover alien technology and life forms. Military personnel who had been assessed and determined to have a history of verified UFO sightings, were used in an “outer cell” operation to locate apparent sighting “hot spots”. Once the site was verified as active the retrieval/contact team was sent in. Operations of this nature were alleged to have occurred in the Nullarbor area and near Marble Bar. My source claimed he was aware of 4 apparent UFO crash events. 


My source insists that what he told me and an associate is true. A certain bitterness enters his recollections, given what he claims to have gone through. There is much that I cannot describe because of concerns about his well being if the stories are true. He said to me, “You might think this shit, but it is true… All my stories would be verified.” When I indicated that I would like to air these stories for the purpose of possible verification, and I indicated concern about possible repercussions for him, he had some misgivings. 


He was concerned that there were things he had said that perhaps he should not have said, particularly to my associate who first heard his story in a non investigative setting. But then finally he concluded, “If they get wind of me, stiff shit!” This might be mere bravado or a nice flourish for a yarn spinner. Which is appropriate I cannot yet be certain. There was much in this story that troubled me. Intriguing as this account is, it has not been confirmed. 


Some possible tantalising links have surfaced that may be connected. For example, I have seen a JIO document originally classified SECRET that confirmed the Joint Intelligence Organisation maintained a secret document resource called the BOLIDE file. It seemed to be anchored to the premise that “UFOs” could involve the chance of retrieval of Soviet hardware and therefore contribute some useful intelligence. 


It appeared that JIO had a “rapid intervention” capability as they had been able to institute prompt widespread ground searches in suspected “hardware” crashes. They did this through “special access” channels. This operation may be similar to US activity operating under the code name Project Moondust. Could this have been involved in the operation described by my source? Clearly further confirmatory information is required before any definite conclusions can be drawn. 


Here is the “Secret” “Bolide file” reference I found in RAAF DOD files during June 1984. The memo was dated 10thApril 1980, written by D. Evans, A/H ST ME Defence Sci. Tech. Intell. Branch, JIO, and addressed to Director of JIO, who at that time would have been A.W. McMichael. I had corresponded with Bob Mathams, the previous JIO/STI incumbent, who retired in 1979:



Director (Through D.DSTI)

10thApril, 1980.

You were enquiring about a UFO reported from Western Australia late last year.  I presume this was the sighting of a “fireball” over the Esperance area at about 7.45 am on 4thOctober, 1979.

2. The object in question was probably a meteorite.  Unfortunately, the occurrence seems to be over dramatized because I believe the people in the reporting chain were still under the influence of the then recent Skylab re-entry affair which centred on Esperance.  This appeared to be particularly so in the case of the W.A. co-ordinator of state emergency services Esperance, who rang the Department of Science in Canberra on several occasions about this matter.  I gather from his report that the 4 October event was originally put down as a meteorite, but the co-ordinator thought otherwise and solicited further witnesses through the local newspaper.

3. This bought forth a series of further reports which reinforced his opinion that of it not being a meteorite.  He then instigated a light aircraft search of an area some 70 miles north of Esperance where explosions had been heard, and our last word from him, around mid October, was that further searches were to be arranged.  I checked with his contact at the Department of Science today, but nothing further has been heard from the co-ordinator about the 4 October event.

4. Incidentally, soon after the initial report, we instigated through “special access” channels a search over a 1,500 nautical nm radius of Esperance, and covering the time frame of the reported sightings, but with nil results.  I feel we must accept it as a meteorite. The general direction of travel SE to NW is outside the limits of possible re-entries from satellites launched to date.



Defence Sci. & Tech. Intell. Branch, JIO.

10 April, 1980.


Now, the Nullarbor UFO crash story was described in a more circumspect way in my 1996 book “The OZ – the Australian UFO Story”, which deliberately sort to obscure who was the witness to the event, as we were currently investigating the case (1995-96) and were concerned about drawing attention to our “source.” I therefore wrote the book account in a more neutral way.

                               My 1996 book “The OZ Files – the Australian UFO Story” 

My publisher mixed up which draft manuscript to use for publication.  While the differences in the overall finished publish book were minor, the corrected edition appeared as the “reprint” edition.  This appeared about a month and a half after the first print run sold out (a few months after initial publication).


Here is the first edition version of the Nullarbor “crash retrieval” story:


“A more complicated story was told to me by a man who claims to have been involved in actions following a UFO crash on the Nullarbor soon after it had happened.  Two men, one an American, were on the Eyre Highway near the border between South Australia and Western Australia in 1977 when they saw a purple-green fireball crash nearby.  They came to the place and one of them entered the craft where he found two aliens, one dead and the other uttering a slight squealing noise.  Both in appearance were pot-bellied, about one and a half metres tall, and had long, thin arms.  Their eyes were large and black, and there were no ears or hair. When the man emerged from the wreck he found military personnel on the scene, who arrested his friend and himself and took them away from the crash site.  The American disappeared (apparently he was absent without leave from the armed services) and the Australian, who was also a solider, was put in custody for two weeks and persuaded that what he had seen was a normal aircraft crash.  He claims that he has subsequently heard of several other UFO crashes which have been cleared up in great secrecy by the military.”


So this was the version that appeared in the first print run of a few thousand copies, which quickly sold out. You need to understand that we were already investigating the story, so its publication would not have coloured the account that had been emerging from the Adelaide based informant in the preceding year or so. What concerned us was whether the “light” exposure of the story in the book would bring unwanted attention to the informant from official or clandestine parties, or even pressure him to “disappear” from “investigative attention” (namely from myself & my friend in Adelaide).


Here is the version that should have been initially published. It appeared in the reprint edition. The original edition & reprint came out only a few months apart. This version was intended to obscure who was the source of the story.


“One particularly fascinating experience was told to me by a person connected with the retrieval of a UFO on the Nullarbor Plain.  In 1977 a purple and green fireball crashed near the border between South and Western Australia, some distance north of the Eyre Highway.  A military retrieval team arrived within hours and found a large, damaged craft, smaller than a Boeing and triangular in shape.  There was charcoal-coloured debris scattered about. Two other man had already arrived on the scene and entered the craft, where there were two aliens, one dead and the other uttering a slight squealing noise.  They were pot-bellied, about one and a half metres tall, and had long, thin arms.  They had large black eyes.


“My informant did not know what happened to the wreckage or the occupants, but insisted the retrieval was part of a combined US-Australian operation which specialised in such work. One of the men who had first found the wreckage was an American serviceman, who disappeared afterwards. The other man, an Australian likewise a member of the armed forces, was put in custody for two weeks and persuaded that what he had seen was the crash of a normal aircraft.  My informant claimed he had heard of several other UFO crashes which had also been cleared up in great secrecy by the military.”

                                                  The Sunday Mail, Adelaide, July 1996

It was the initial published version that was the source and focus of the South Australian Sunday Mail story that appeared soon after the book’s release. This newspaper story in South Australia was apparently the only Australian newspaper focus on the “crash retrieval” stories on the Nullarbor during the publicity period associated with the release of my 1996 book “The OZ Files.”  While extensive, most of the media attention was on the Kelly Cahill case – an abduction episode, that opened my book.  I had started investigating the original claim in 1995. The witness was living in Adelaide. 


The other side of possibly the same story, described by the “retrieval operation” participant, came from him (as a Melbourne based person) initially in 2013, long after my book (1996), the news story (1996) and the magazine story (1997) had come out.


Here is investigation background that informed the story that was used in “The OZ Files” (1996 – first edition (& reprint)), the South Australian Sunday Mailnewspaper (21/7/96) and the 1997 “UFOlogist” magazine article.


I had learnt from an Adelaide based friend in May 1995 that there was a 47-year-old man, L. M., who began telling her some UFO stories, most directly involving himself.  She had met him initially in meetings related to a housing cooperative group (that was attempting to provide low cost housing to people in need), which she had joined at about the same time as L. M. – circa March, 1995. Apparently L. M. was “down on his housing luck”.  My friend found the cooperative a rather toxic organisation, and ultimately left it in about 2000.  She had no further contact with L. M. 


In the course of casual conversations in the background of cooperative meetings, and in private meetings between the 2 of them, the topic of UFOs came up and he started to describe what seemed to be a “rich history” of personal UFO experiences. Some of these experiences had apparently taken place while he served in the Australian army. He had joined the army in about 1966 serving until about 1982-83, mainly as a transport driver.  After leaving the army he continued in transport work for a number of years. The fragments of UFO experiences that began to emerge in these conversations, reached a point where they seemed interesting enough that my friend thought an attempt should be made to try to get some details, with a view to passing them onto to me. 


My friend got an opportunity to record an initial conversation on 20 May, 1995, where L. M. described an event involving a number of vehicles being affected by UFOs near Marla, in northern South Australia, on the main road from Alice Springs to Adelaide, around 1983. L.’s vehicle, a car driven by an elderly couple towing a caravan and eventually 2 separate police cars were affected that night. The event seemed to involve police car pursuits of UFOs, multiple vehicle stoppages, plus an Air Force aircraft having “all its instruments (go) haywire” while flying in the area. There also may have been a civilian aircraft involved as well. It seemed UFOs were affecting vehicle operations.  Eventually L. with his truck, the elderly couple with their vehicle & caravan and officers in 2 police vehicles had stopped ostensibly due to the presence and apparent effects of “strange lights.” Headlights went out and motors engines stopped functioning. L. described earlier sightings (in the mid 1960s) near Pinnaroo (a possible landing with trace marks) and over Kangaroo Island. He also indicated a possible “missing time” episode between Broome and Port Headland, near Sand Fly Flats, involving 3 trucks/caravans drivers. L. M. said he had “more complicated” UFO related experiences while in army service, but indicated he was “not allowed to talk about it.”  There was a suggestion of “a task force” “observing whatever was out there”, and he stated “something was out there” in the Outback. In the context of this first recorded interview L. M. was vague with dates, but some events suggested an overlap with his time of military service. 


My friend shared this tape with me.  It was in a second extended recorded interview my friend did, dated 2September, 1995, where L. M. was slowly becoming a bit more forthcoming, but always saying he had to be careful what he said, or that maybe he had said too much. He covered the event near Marla again, and then started talking about an event near the South Australian border with Western Australia, along the Nullarbor.  


It seemed that the airing on Adelaide TV of a Roswell UFO crash special in 1995, a few days before the September 1995 interview may have stirred L. into tentatively starting to talk about his own alleged experiences.  My friends interview contains a reference by her talking to L. mentioning he having seen the Roswell show and them both talking about it.  In terms of what this program was, the only two specific Roswell related programmes I was aware of, were 2 separate segments on the original “Unsolved Mysteries” programme hosted by Robert Stack and the movie “Roswell.” The first “Unsolved Mysteries” segment “Roswell” was aired on US TV on 20 September 1989 and repeated on 24 January 1990. Back in those days US series would turn up on Australian TV a few months, at least, after their US debut, and rarely near to the original US release date. An update “Unsolved Mysteries” episode addressing the Roswell crash and Area 51 aired in the US on 18 September 1994. This Update segment may well have been what was referred to on the September 1995taped interview.  The other candidate was the made for TV movie release in the US on 31 July 1994 as “Roswell” and in Australia as a video release called “Incident at Roswell” perhaps during 1995. There may have been a TV release in Australia during 1995. So on balance, it appears that it may have been the second Unsolved Mysteries segment that L. M. and my friend had viewed and discussed. 


Interestingly it was 2 other movies that had content that approximated L.’s claimed experience. The first of these was the mini-series “Intruders” inspired by Budd Hopkins book of the same name.  It aired in the US during 1992. In Australia it aired on Sydney TV during May 1992 (Source: Bill Chalker, “Taken down under” Part 2 (International UFO Reporter (IUR), Fall, 2003 issue) and in Adelaide South Australia during July 1992 (Source: Keith Basterfield, “Australian Abduction Research 1990-1992” IUR, Sept/Oct, 1992).  While the show focused on alien abduction narratives, there was a sub-plot that dealt with a solider who was languishing in a psychiatric hospital, who would describe the source of his malaise as being due to an experience of investigating a crash UFO on the outskirts of Holloman Air Force Base in New Mexico. He enters the damaged UFO which has some dead aliensand one living one.  His encounter is interrupted by the arrival of a military team and he is taken away, eventual ending up in psychiatric care for his troubles. The other movie was actually made on the Australian Gold Coast for the US Sci-Fi TV cable channel in 1993. “Official Denial” (scripted by Bryce Zabel of “Dark Skies” fame, and now co-host with Ross Coulthart, of the “Need to Know” podcast) had a far more limited release in Australia.  I encountered it on video release and don’t recollect seeing it on TV.  It had a UFO crash where a military retrieval entering the UFO, with one officer killing aliens, leaving one that survives, which is held in a secure facility. Communication with it only occurs via an abductee, then its escape is facilitated by the facility commander supporting the abductee. Turns out the “alien” is from our future. It is not clear if “Intruders” (and less likely “Official Denial”) had any influence on L. M.’s recollections,or whether he had seen either program.


Returning to my Adelaide friend’s September 1995 taped interview, slowly a fragmented narrative of an event emerged. It became clearer to my friend over more than 3 hours of developing narrative and discussion that L. M. was then describing an experience that occurred during his period of army service.  It became clearer that he was describing what seemed to be a UFO crash that he and a friend had witnessed, while driving a truck across the Nullarbor, that both had approached a large damaged object on the ground, and they entered this object and encountered 2 beings.  His companion returned to their vehicle, while L. remained inside the damaged object. L. described seeing that one of the beings was alive. He was aware that this being was reaching out to him, then there was some sort of sound. Then the situation seemed interrupted with the arrival of a team, seemingly military – an apparent UFO retrieval team. He was escorted out of the object, hosed down, and then taken into custody. He would learn that his friend, who had returned to their vehicle, was found at the vehicle by elements of the retrieval operation and taken into custody. L. would never see his friend again, but apparently understood, that as an American military person, he was taken back to the US.  L. M. indicates he himself was taken to Albury for 2 days, and eventually taken by an Australian plane to Exmouth, where he experienced a heavy handed debrief and interrogation.


So the narrative seemed to establish, that during 1977/78 (accurate date not known), L. M., an Australian Army transport driver (whose period of service in the army has been confirmed for me by investigative journalist Ross Coulthart during 2020 (upon learning that L.M. had passed away, and there was no longer any concern of him being targeted)), was driving a truck across the Nullarbor, from Adelaide, where he was stationed, heading west to Perth, Western Australia.  In the vehicle with him, was an American solider, (apparently absent without leave (AWOL)), described by L. M. as his “mate”, who was named Klaus (German in origin, but an American citizen).


From the interviews (with editorial insertions, based on the full interview details, for clarity) :


“(From) Albury (around 2 a.m.) to the crash site (about 3 hours).  (At the) crash site (about) 1 hour. (This suggest that L. M. and Klaus witnessed the crash about 5 am and “the retrieval team” may have arrived before 6 am).


“It was) like a fireball – purple, green – a bit of yellow.  (It was) like a plane on “fire”, like the back (was) on fire. (I) saw flames, purple.  After it crashed, (there was) no fire, no nothing).


“(The) main fuselage (was) intact.


“I saw wreckage.  I saw it coming over. I trucked over as far as I could off the road.  We got out and went over.  It looked just like a D -10 plane – 10 seater, about as big as that, charcoal colour – grey, but like a real dark grey.


“(There was wreckage) all over the place, spread over a fair distance. The main section was pretty flat, like an oval shape, elliptical like a plane. 


“I didn’t get too close to it (initially).


“I looked inside, can’t tell.  There was something in there, more than one, one alive.  The other, I don’t know.


“I was there for ¾ of an hour to 1 hour.


“(They were) nothing like anything I had ever seen.  People, shoulder height, skinny, Three?


“(They had) grey uniforms, silky colour. Funny sort of material.


“(Their) features: better not say too much … (like Roswell?) Faces were a bit funny, (but) similar to ours.


“(Did they make any noise?)


“(It was a kind of) telepathic talking. (They) never said anything to me).


“(Their eyes, were they the black, wrap around eyes?)  (They) seemed longer. (Nose?) No – like flat. (Mouth?) definite (mouth). (Hair?) … I shouldn’t be saying.


“Musky” sort of smell inside UFO.


“the person looked at me” – something happened, only heard a voice. (A) very faint squealing sound – like communicating to the other (like saying, keep still, keep still.


“I was going to reach over.  He moved. The other moved back.  I pulled my hand back. 


“(There was) a green thing inside (the) craft – sparkling, sitting there, doing nothing? So big, like a diamond or ruby – 6 to 7 cms. (In terms of was there lighting) – fluorescence? 


“(Suddenly) Things came from everywhere.  Yanks & all.  Can’t stand Yanks when they talk. (I was) held at gun point.  “I got hosed down.  I was wet afterwards.”          


“My mate Klaus (was) asleep in the truck. (They) caught him after.  He had a look, went back to the truck.  They got him.


“By 6 am (It was) all gone. They gave me breakfast.  (He was taken (escorted) to) Albury for 2 days, (then) (they) flew me to Exmouth on (an) Australian plane…. (There he was subjected to a) medical for 2 hours. (L.) alleges, “I hit one of them (military policeman), then grabbed a doctor. (They) told me to calm down.  You don’t have to be so rough. (He was given an) injection. He woke up groggy.


“(There), (L.) was principally interrogated by an American team of 7 specialists, for about a week. (Eventually) there were 12 around the table interrogating, firing questions.  Yanks asked most questions.  Australians (were) there. The Americans described the place as like a “resort hotel.” (An) Australian, (insisted), “It was a plane, OK, that’s it.” L. eventually said, “Alright, I thought it was a plane, that’s why.”


“(They didn’t grill you about when the alien looked at you?) – “No.”


L. M. indicates he is aware of at least 3 separate UFO crash events in Australia, including the Nullarbor event.  Apparently soon after his Exmouth experience, he was seconded into a military group – “a special task force” – that tried to carry out a rapid intervention capability. 


“They got me to join to keep me quiet.”  (I spent) about 4 or 5 years in “task force.”


In one case near Marble Bar, north west Western Australia, “Yanks wouldn’t let any Australians near it – heard on radio – there was an unidentified plane going down.  Trace it to other side of Marble Bar – no plane – has to be a UFO.  (They) hear a “bang” – all vehicles (were instructed) to proceed to Marble Bar.  “A big crescent” – American security police kept Australians away.


In the September 1995 interview L. M. described an event referred to as “the desert landing”, which he would not talk about, that to my friend, seemed as if “the texture of this is too strong.” “The desert landing was a bigger event than the crash, that he was personally involved and suffered at the hands of the Americans.” These statements are drawn from my friends “after thoughts” after the September 1995 interview she had undertaken for me.  She felt L. M. may have regretted talking and disclosing what he did, as she had indicated in her interview with him, “My mate, Bill, is very interested.” 


I had a brief conservation with L., but he would talk down his concerns, insisting that what he told me and my friend is true. A certain bitterness entered his recollections, given what he claims to have gone through. He said to me, “You might think this shit, but it is true… All my stories would be verified.” When I indicated that I would like to air these stories for the purpose of possible verification, and I indicated concern about possible repercussions for him, he had some misgivings. He was concerned that there were things he had said that perhaps he should not have said, particularly to my friend, who first heard his story in a non investigative setting. But then finally he concluded, “If they get wind of me, stiff shit!” That may have been mere bravado or a nice flourish for a yarn spinner, but which is appropriate, I cannot yet be certain.  It seemed, to my friend, that L. M. was anti- American, and that this attitude was a consequence of his direct personal experiences of being in an “ultra secret task force”, which had been involved in Australian events, but had also taken him to the US.


My friend described L. M. being in pain all the time, around this 1995 period, through to the end of their contact, around 2000. He had been injured, he believed, in his transport driving work. 


To my friend, L. seemed very self conscious and with self esteem issues. He appeared shy and passive.  She felt he was not someone who would make up a story. To her, he seemed to be of average intelligence, but under confident.  Although very impressed by the story that L. told, the distance from its original telling, through difficulties of getting him to further elaborate the details of the alleged event, to ultimately the increasing difficulty of making any further contact with him, started to give her doubts.   My friend started to feel, as he was “all over the shop,” that he had “probably heard it from someone else.”  She would much later, start to feel that maybe his halting, intermittent recollections and way of telling the UFO crash story, could probably be explained by L. M. having heard the story second hand, from someone close to him, perhaps each a close family member. She told me, “I reckon he heard it from someone else (and that it may be) a second hand story.”  I have made some enquiries along these lines, but that have not provided any further solid information.


Still, the possibility exists that L. M.’s knowledge of this matter, may have emerged from close family ties.  However, it should be noted that it could well be that the experience belongs to L. M. and that the manner and circumstances of its telling to my friend, and in a more circumspect manner, to me, reflect his circumstances in 1995, and the impact of what L. M. alleged he had gone through, during the described event, and in the claimed post event debrief/interrogations, and in his claimed role, as part of a team that was allegedly involved in some other UFO events, while he was a member of the Australian army – all of which, if true, would have had significant mental and physical health consequences.


My friend confirmed to me in June, 2020, that the tapes she made are my tapes now, and that this matter is now my story.  While she is prepared to support the story in non-public ways, she does not want to be caught up in the public airing of the story. 


Unfortunately, by March 2020, my friend and I had determined that L. M. had passed away during August, 2014, at the age of 66. I have been through a list of 10 people in the white pages (residential listings), most in South Australia, with limited success. Despite a number of repeat call efforts, only one person knew him (distant relation), but really didn’t know much about him. Another 2 did not know him (same address, 2 different numbers). A third was not applicable. The rest have yet to respond to messages (3) or there was no answer (2), and one with incoming call restrictions.


Now to the other account which may or may not be about the same event.


The PROGRAM source story

Bill Chalker & the Program source in 2019


From my numbered notes of my initial face-to-face meeting in 2013 with a source (PS: Program Source) who claims to be an alleged senior member of Australian region secret group which conducts research and retrieval of UFOs and aliens – allegedly part of a privatised worldwide organisation which was put into place circa 1972-1973 based on an operational template developed by this man and his boss.  This development ostensibly marked the transition of the official secret UFO study from a military intelligence operation to a privatised operation made up of selected representatives of major aerospace military contract type organisations which works on a worldwide basis. 


Notes (numbered) taken from 2013 conversation (14, 15, 16, 17, 18):  


2 further meetings (as recently as 2019 were partially recorded – so there is a lot more detail of this alleged incident and the whole complex story of this persons alleged involvement in the so-called “Project” or “Program”) plus extensive email exchanges and some phone calls. 



When it came to UFOs – they do crash – laws of our nature – our physics – so much more advanced, but still can’t overcome issues on Earth. 

1977 -78 – very hot summer – after Valentich – incident – I was involved (via (REDACTED by me – B.C.) to get involved – picked up by helicopter) – somewhere in WA/SA – Eucla – 20 km N/W – WA side of border – deployed team – 20 military first – “our green team went in there” – actually a genuine case  


Some debris – there were “entities – they are not “creatures” – not inferior – “entities” – 2 deceased – one did live for a few days – the site was cleaned up in 3 days – taken to Salisbury, some overseas. 

It was shocking for me, being operations and administration, I was never actually involved in field operations – too busy with issues with staff.  I saw the bodies under the sheets with the feet exposed.  Army guys involved.  One of the science team had psychological trauma.  They were dealt with – fairy tale stuff. 


Military science employed for their insightfulness – not conventional – probably the reason for my involvement – on “the panel” for deployment – some don’t have diplomas or degrees – “wasted” – “Brains” from the Thunderbirds would be inducted. 


Do not stare at them for more than 3 or 4 seconds – some kind of overload. One of the scientists from the panel was overwhelmed – taken debriefing. 


There has been some contact. 

I travelled for hours in a helicopter – 3 days – stinking hot in W.A. (above case) – others clean it up – read a lot of overseas cases. 


During a 3 December 2019 with my Program source (PS) in Sydney I was allowed to record our conversation.   


Here is a transcript of a part of our conversation, where I focused on the Nullarbor crash story he first told me about in 2013, per my notes of our discussion (above): 


(PS: Program Source; BC: Bill Chalker) 


BC: You mentioned to me previously on a number of occasions that the only time you went out in the field, back in the day, was that event in South Australia 

PS: Near the border 

BC: Near the Western Australia border.  Now, I had somebody who talked to me, possibly about the same event (PS: Right) who was allegedly one of 2 gentlemen inside the craft (PS: Yes) when the retrieval team arrived 

PS: I know one of them, I know him very well.  I know the person, because I was there.  I know what happened. 

BC: Was that someone who was part of the retrieval team? 

PS: Yes. 

BC: No, I’m talking about 2 people who were actually driving (PS: Oh, Yes) when the event occurs (PS: Yes, Yes) and they were actually inside, and coming out, when –  

PS: They were supposedly civilians, were they? 

BC: Well, both kind of military, one of them was American, and an Australian (PS: Yes, there was), one of them, I think the American, somewhat absent without leave (AWOL) (PS: yeah), heading back to where he should have been, then this event occurs. The 2 get separated, and the information I got was from the Australian (PS: Right), indirectly.  It was kind of, an interesting story. Then, you tell me your experience (PS: Yes) 

PS: Yes, Um.  Yes, I don’t know … What was the point you were making with that? 

BC: The point I am making there, is that, here is a guy, who was seemingly in the Australian military, and then was subsequently used as an asset, because they were using different ways or qualities of people that, I guess of people who were psychically aware or attuned to this stuff, and they were using it as kind of a (PS: No) … lead in to predict where some of these things were going to happen. 

PS: Nope. 

BC: You don’t accept that? 

PS: I don’t accept that. No.  

BC: I was there and I know what was going on.  We organised it.  We organised the retrieval.  I flew in there. I know who was there and who wasn’t there.  But, there was, there was an American guy, there was another guy, that did go in, and … totally disorientated when they came out.  One of them was terribly sick, and the other guy was told to shut up, and don’t talk about it again. 

BC: Right. And what was that related to, coming into contact with the beings that were there? 

PS: Yes.  There was one alive, alive for a short time.  I actually didn’t see the whole body.  I only saw the bottom end, I think I may have told you, I only saw, there was a sheet covering, one was bought out, I only saw the bottom part, the leg, bottom section, I didn’t see the body, the torso or the face.  But, the funny thing is, that one of the protocols that we had for retrievals, its worldwide, its not just in Australia, is that, if you come across an entity, that is alive, still ticking, don’t stare at it in the face, don’t stare at it in the eyes, because – from what, my understanding, I’m not a doctor, I’m not a specialist of any kind, but I talk to them all the time, is that there’s a telepathic thing going on, that can cause an overload.  That’s what happened in that particular case anyway.  There was a complete overload.  He totally went berserk, and that didn’t just happen, confined to this particular event.  It’s happened quite a number of times. 

BC: So you are saying that the person who told me of what appears to be the same story, that might have been BS? 

PS: I’m not saying anything. I don’t know about that. Honestly, I was there.  I don’t know.  I don’t remember that …  We never used anybody that had psychic abilities, or had some sort of remote viewing, or anything like this. 

BC: But given that particular event, was there any awareness that somebody had gotten there first before the retrieval team? 

PS: Uhm.  From what I understand, no.  There was something that happened during, but we were there for quite a while, I wasn’t there right up to the very end, I had to leave, so I left. I’m just trying to think … I’m trying to think of the name of the guy, I can’t remember his name. 

BC: How long were you there for, then? 

PS: I was there for one and a half days, because we had to get the right assets in there, to actually execute the retrieval.  There weren’t many people around.  It was a pretty remote area. 

BC: What was the state of the object itself? 

PS: It was 3 quarters intact, it was your typical, if you want to call it a UFO, flying saucer. Typically, it had rounded, but slightly, a little bit tear dropped to one end.  it wasn’t perfectly round.  I’ve seen the photos.  We’ve got the photos, they are still in existence, its all still in electronic storage. 

BC:  No chance of seeing those photos, I suppose? (I laugh) 


In retrospect, I complicated this conversation, with my linkage to “psychic means.”  While this was an aspect of my original informant account, it came after the crash event – namely, allegedly being used in attempts to locate UFO events. Whether this was based on actual, well understood psychic activities, or whether it was more simply, a propensity for being “aware” or subject to frequent UFO events, is not clear.  Additionally, it is unclear if my PS source was present with the initial team that went to the location involved (to secure the site?), or whether it was the retrieval team, which he describes.  In my 2013 notes it is highlighted that military went in first, then the Program’s “green team.”  It seems he was most involved with the latter aspect of the operation, namely the retrieval. 


So from complex and convoluted trajectories two separate sources may be describing the same or similar event on the Nullarbor during the 1970s.


THE “BOB” (“Back of Bourke”) EVENT

The Western Herald (Bourke) 8 June 2006


An extended investigation I undertook in outback Australia was attempting to verify claims of a mass witnessed UFO event that allegedly took place on the same day as the moon landing back in July 1969. The witnesses were claimed to be a large number of aboriginal children and women, along with two aboriginal missionaries. The story told describes the observation of a large UFO seen hovering for about half an hour. It then descended behind a hill. A large “mushroom cloud” went up from the spot. The two missionaries – names known to me – had been leading the flock in prayers, declared it was the “end of the world”. The state of affairs that existed then and even now led to the event remaining unknown to white people in the area. However, the event held particular sway over at least one of the children. He approached me, because his own son and about 5 others in an aboriginal hunting party came across a strange debris field. The locality turned out to be in an area that coincided with the line of sight of the 1969 “crash” some 30 or so years earlier. 

                                                 The primary witness of the BOB affair – 

                                       often called “Roswell” amongst his indigenous friends

My primary informant became convinced that the recent “debris field” and the 1969 UFO “crash” event are linked. I extensively interviewed him and two of the recent hunting party. We undertook 3 ground surveys over very difficult terrain and conditions. I undertook an aerial video survey which revealed some areas of interest. The nature of the location suggested we would have to virtually walk directly over it to find it – no easy task given the locality and prevailing conditions. It was very difficult and exhausting work, however our investigations to date suggested it was worthwhile to continue pursuing the story and its alleged “UFO debris field”. Enquiries in this area and over a much larger outback and near outback region has yielded some fascinating information that suggests a rich heritage of UFO and Fortean type phenomena. In one area we have been looking into an intriguing photo anomaly recorded in a locality known for its strange aboriginal “sky being” lore and other strange features. The whole investigation has revealed a large amount of information about this fascinating strange heritage.


The “BOB” investigation reached something of an impasse because of a range of factors.  We were not able to establish any significant debris field, that was both anomalous and consistent with the apparent lines of sight from the witness locations of the 1969 event.  Regular slow moving, but heavy silt laying, flood events, significantly impacted on location changes, making the location of any debris, much more difficult.  Illness and other issues made follows up with the main witnesses problematic.  Some changes of religious temperaments, perhaps bought about by major life threatening illnesses, caused the witness to cast further elaborations of the event as something of a religious prophetic event, to which I was asked to “bear witness” in a biblical sense. For me that was not something I wanted to participate in, so the investigation stalled. However, the earlier phases of the investigation seemed compelling and allowed for the elaboration of a lot of compelling tangential events.  The 1969 “BOB” event seemed initially compelling with compelling indigenous witnesses.  Today, it remains in the uncertain category.


So my own extensive investigations in this fascinating area of UFO/UAP investigations remain inconclusive, falling far short of compelling “physical evidence” for “UFO crash retrievals” “down under”.  If anyone has compelling and verifiable information I would be pleased to hear from you. 


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